Gritty Reality or Just Disgusting?
Colonial Fleets recently sent out a letter due to the last episode. The letter is as follows:
"“Give it a chance.”
That was the oft –repeated mantra of the folks on the old Sci-Fi board. Give the new show a chance, don’t pre-judge it; watch it, see what you think. So we did. We watched it and in the spirit of fairness, we matched words with deeds, here at Colonial Fleets, and created a completely separate but equal sub-forum, strictly for new show conversation. It seemed to be the right choice, at the time.
Since then, we have been educated to the mindset of the author that the offerings on this show, called Battlestar Galactica (2003), were to be a reflection of society and we were challenged to “think about it”; that there would be parallels to real-life events such as the Sept 11 attacks and told, by the author, to “make your own judgments as to what they say to you”; and that this new show would completely “re-invent” the sci-fi genre.
Well, we have thought about it and have spoken those thoughts on these forum pages, for much of the past 2 years. Ever since the new series came about, this fanbase has been in a tenuous place and Colonial Fleets was often a tension spring within the fanbase for allowing and even promoting, at times, discussion of the new series. Through that time, we made a concerted effort to separate the comments from the commentator and to keep the debates focused on the issue. Primarily, though, each of us has strived to employ our own personal standards of morality and decency when presenting these thoughts.
An example of these standards of decency and morality can be witnessed by the following remarks by our good friend, Malkyte, who very eloquently expressed the thoughts of many members, here and elsewhere:
“Throughout the many years of human existence, there has always been a line. A line that represented on one side, the best of human decency and morality, and on the other, the pure animalistic and monstrous evil that humans can be. This line has moved back and forth throughout those same years, and depending on individual experiences, it has always been in different places.”
“Society in general has appeared to become more tolerant of rude and disrespectful behavior, to the point where it is celebrated when someone is deviant or rebellious. It’s rather disheartening and disturbing at the same time. But our society more and more rewards liars, killers and celebrity deviants, who in some cases are only in the news because of the crap they do, and not for any talent they may possess.”
We share those same concerns about society and can see, for ourselves, the truth in the remarks. In addition, we agree that the “line” has been shifting back and forth with a decided tilt toward the less than desirable aspect of human society. We also realize that the entertainment industry has “pushed the envelope as far as they could”, only because we have allowed them to do so.
We have allowed the entertainment industry to tell us that it was "ok" to have a baby's neck snapped (the script originally called for Number Six to drive her finger through the baby's skull); it was "ok" to draw a parallel of sympathy toward the terrorists who carried out the Sept 11 attacks - in other words, we got what we deserved; but, the straw that snapped the proverbial camel's back was the use of rape as a military torture tool in the "Pegasus" episode.
We will NOT allow the entertainment industry to tell us that it is "ok", at any time, for a rape to occur. It does not "advance the story", it glorifies a horrible aggression upon another human being. After nearly 2 years of this “educational experience”, we have reached the conclusion that the movement of the line must cease. While we absolutely hold no ill will toward our Fleets family members who are attracted to the show, we can no longer willingly sanction discussion about a show which goes against so many of our innermost values.
Mr. Moore, your show has had many events which have driven us away from its potential enjoyment. The negatives have far outweighed the positives, and in this case, the negatives have finally come to a head that cannot be ignored.
Effective with the posting of this announcement, the “New Battlestar Galactica Forum” as well as all of its related sub-forums will be permanently closed and removed from the Forum Index Page.
As mentioned above, the decision to close the "New Battlestar Galactica Forum", etal, is done with no malice toward any of our members attracted to the new show.
We value the contributions of all members of the Fleets family and will continue our journey as a Battlestar Galactica artists' site as well as a discussion forum centered on the Original Battlestar Galactica and, of course, the "fun" areas in the Rejuvenation Center. The Original Battlestar Galactica is the show whose revival this site was built to support and that is what this site will continue to focus on and support wholeheartedly. The "New Battlestar Galactica" series has shown it's true colors and it is time for us to bid it adieu.
The decision to close the "New Battlestar Galactica Forum", et. al., is based entirely on the content of the show and is FINAL and IRREVOKABLE.
Signed,
The Owner, Administrators, and Moderators of Colonial Fleets
Titon
Warrior
BST
Dawg
Fragmentary
Gemini1999
Jewels
Martok2112"
I do not agree with this statement. The line is indeed leaning more towards allowing "rude and disrespectful behavior", and the creators of Galactica are trying to point that out to us. They are pointing out the faults in society, and they are pushing the envelope of tolerance simply because they are showing, nearly uncensored and uncut, what happens out in society and in our military. I understand that some people get squeamish from seeing what is really happening, what humanity has become. This is, of course, the intent of the show.
This post was created per request to vent. Have at it, ladies and gentlemen.
"“Give it a chance.”
That was the oft –repeated mantra of the folks on the old Sci-Fi board. Give the new show a chance, don’t pre-judge it; watch it, see what you think. So we did. We watched it and in the spirit of fairness, we matched words with deeds, here at Colonial Fleets, and created a completely separate but equal sub-forum, strictly for new show conversation. It seemed to be the right choice, at the time.
Since then, we have been educated to the mindset of the author that the offerings on this show, called Battlestar Galactica (2003), were to be a reflection of society and we were challenged to “think about it”; that there would be parallels to real-life events such as the Sept 11 attacks and told, by the author, to “make your own judgments as to what they say to you”; and that this new show would completely “re-invent” the sci-fi genre.
Well, we have thought about it and have spoken those thoughts on these forum pages, for much of the past 2 years. Ever since the new series came about, this fanbase has been in a tenuous place and Colonial Fleets was often a tension spring within the fanbase for allowing and even promoting, at times, discussion of the new series. Through that time, we made a concerted effort to separate the comments from the commentator and to keep the debates focused on the issue. Primarily, though, each of us has strived to employ our own personal standards of morality and decency when presenting these thoughts.
An example of these standards of decency and morality can be witnessed by the following remarks by our good friend, Malkyte, who very eloquently expressed the thoughts of many members, here and elsewhere:
“Throughout the many years of human existence, there has always been a line. A line that represented on one side, the best of human decency and morality, and on the other, the pure animalistic and monstrous evil that humans can be. This line has moved back and forth throughout those same years, and depending on individual experiences, it has always been in different places.”
“Society in general has appeared to become more tolerant of rude and disrespectful behavior, to the point where it is celebrated when someone is deviant or rebellious. It’s rather disheartening and disturbing at the same time. But our society more and more rewards liars, killers and celebrity deviants, who in some cases are only in the news because of the crap they do, and not for any talent they may possess.”
We share those same concerns about society and can see, for ourselves, the truth in the remarks. In addition, we agree that the “line” has been shifting back and forth with a decided tilt toward the less than desirable aspect of human society. We also realize that the entertainment industry has “pushed the envelope as far as they could”, only because we have allowed them to do so.
We have allowed the entertainment industry to tell us that it was "ok" to have a baby's neck snapped (the script originally called for Number Six to drive her finger through the baby's skull); it was "ok" to draw a parallel of sympathy toward the terrorists who carried out the Sept 11 attacks - in other words, we got what we deserved; but, the straw that snapped the proverbial camel's back was the use of rape as a military torture tool in the "Pegasus" episode.
We will NOT allow the entertainment industry to tell us that it is "ok", at any time, for a rape to occur. It does not "advance the story", it glorifies a horrible aggression upon another human being. After nearly 2 years of this “educational experience”, we have reached the conclusion that the movement of the line must cease. While we absolutely hold no ill will toward our Fleets family members who are attracted to the show, we can no longer willingly sanction discussion about a show which goes against so many of our innermost values.
Mr. Moore, your show has had many events which have driven us away from its potential enjoyment. The negatives have far outweighed the positives, and in this case, the negatives have finally come to a head that cannot be ignored.
Effective with the posting of this announcement, the “New Battlestar Galactica Forum” as well as all of its related sub-forums will be permanently closed and removed from the Forum Index Page.
As mentioned above, the decision to close the "New Battlestar Galactica Forum", etal, is done with no malice toward any of our members attracted to the new show.
We value the contributions of all members of the Fleets family and will continue our journey as a Battlestar Galactica artists' site as well as a discussion forum centered on the Original Battlestar Galactica and, of course, the "fun" areas in the Rejuvenation Center. The Original Battlestar Galactica is the show whose revival this site was built to support and that is what this site will continue to focus on and support wholeheartedly. The "New Battlestar Galactica" series has shown it's true colors and it is time for us to bid it adieu.
The decision to close the "New Battlestar Galactica Forum", et. al., is based entirely on the content of the show and is FINAL and IRREVOKABLE.
Signed,
The Owner, Administrators, and Moderators of Colonial Fleets
Titon
Warrior
BST
Dawg
Fragmentary
Gemini1999
Jewels
Martok2112"
I do not agree with this statement. The line is indeed leaning more towards allowing "rude and disrespectful behavior", and the creators of Galactica are trying to point that out to us. They are pointing out the faults in society, and they are pushing the envelope of tolerance simply because they are showing, nearly uncensored and uncut, what happens out in society and in our military. I understand that some people get squeamish from seeing what is really happening, what humanity has become. This is, of course, the intent of the show.
This post was created per request to vent. Have at it, ladies and gentlemen.
posted by (and Ernie) at 11:54 AM
18 Comments:
The letter is a bit too martyr-ish for me... as if they are making some sort of statement by withdrawing support for the show... support that was tenuous at best anyhow.
It feels more like convenient censorship to me. They probably have to do a ton of work regulating the flame wars in their forums. Life is probably a lot easier if they just block people from acknowledging the new show exists.
I agree with trapper_markelz... I think that the colonial fleets letter sounded pretentious.
BSG didn't actually show anybody being raped, it's all implied... which to me belies the high and mighty (silly) tone of the letter. The "entertainment industry" does much much worse.... but I digress.
By the way trapper, I enjoyed the tune you did on your website. Keylime-Battlestar... good stuff.
Good lord...
Did they even watch the last episode? I seemed to miss that part about saying rape was an OK. Seemed like it was carried out by antogonist characters, and the protagonist characters risked everything to stop it.
So the colonial fleet folks want to quit watching the show. Fine. They won't be missed.
What I'm wondering though, since the airing of the episode coincided nicely with the real-life conviction of PFC England for similar abuses at Abu Ghraib, will they also be be quitting this country too?
This is bull. Forum drama queens that can't stand a little actual meaning in their outstanding sci-fi.
I enjoy SG-1 as much as the next person, but where would BSG be if every message conveyed were as trite and ham-handed as the ones conveyed in Stargate?
Science fiction is considered bad fiction by an unfortunately large amount of the public--and the direction Ron Moore is taking BSG is pushing the frontiers of quality in the genre. RDM is a damn hero of the industry. He's actually trying to form parallels between the fiction and the real world--something much sci-fi never attempts beyond a simple "racism r bad" or "dun judg peepl".
These chumps are chumps.
First of all, thank you LAiaC for making this blog entry.
[RANT]
I really should not be surprised that the mods at ColonialFleets.com decided to remove their New BG forum and all references thereto. In the scant few weeks I have been lurking/posting there, it has been manifestly clear to me that they considered the New BG forum (and fans of the series) to be bastard stepchildren at best. The moderators' bias against New BG was most evident in the one sided manner with which supposedly improper posts were dealt. Anyone who was "well respected" in the community could post "this GINO episode sucks" without so much as an acknowledgement from the mods. If anyone even thought of expressing the same with regard to TOS, they were chastised.
(Brief aside - Generally, "well respected" seemed to mean that you supported the Singer/DeSanto project to the exclusion of all other plausible futures for the francise. And to be quite honest, having read the plot synopsis for the Singer/DeSanto project, I am glad that it did not get off the ground. The story was highly derivative, unimaginative, and was far too reminiscent of Star Trek:TNG "Best of Both Worlds" to be the landmark for resurrecting TOS. In fact, I think that this project would have buried Galactica deeper than NORAD below Cheyenne Mountain. The Singer/DeSanto project all but ignored the plots from TOS episodes that would have made a great series, or even a feature film... i.e. the "War of the Gods"/Count Iblis storyline. Now that I can say how I really feel without getting "moderated," the Singer/DeSanto story line singularly stunk... But I digress...)
What has surprised me about the ColonialFleets.com decision to shut down the New BG forums is how they have dubbed Friday's episode, specifically the attempted rape of Sharon2, as entirely unacceptable and being the straw that broke the camel's back. The mods have cloaked themselves in a mantle of self-righteousness that simply put, borders upon the absurd. Their ministrations that they can no longer tolerate the movement of the "line" towards immoral behavior has an air of disingenuousness about it.
I say this because it is evident that IF they watched the episode, they weren't paying attention. The rape of Sharon2 was an attempted one. No rape was shown. Verbal references were made to the gang rape of Gina/Six, but none were shown. I dare say I have seen worse depictions on Law and Order:SVU. I guess that's why ColonialFleets don't have a discussion forum for that show. ;-)
There is no doubt that the writers of this episode were not glorifying rape, nor were they including it as a gratuitous display. It was integral to the plot and in no way did it tout rape as an appropriate tool of interrogation. In fact, the writing clearly showed the opposite. The writing clearly made the statement that we sacrifice our own humanity when we treat our enemies in this manner. Can anyone say Abu-Graib? The writers have done what good sci-fi can do, make the viewer confront current events in a new light.
I find it interesting that the CF mods should get so hung up on the references to rape in this episode (with a passing mention of how Six killed an infant in the mini... which IIRC was implied, not visually depicted). Where is their outrage regarding the gratuitous and incessant hard sex between Six and Baltar? Where is their outrage at the gratuitous depictions of Six in various states of undress? I, as an evangelical Christian, found these very offensive and I would have stopped watching the show had it not been toned down this season. Maybe the mods found those scenes "titillating" and conveniently forgot to mention them? I doubt it, but their failure to mention these scenes largely undermines the moral tone of their statement.
It's clear to me that the CF mods were simply looking for an excuse (any excuse) to jettison the New BG board. They don't like the series because it's not what they wanted and, much to their dismay, it's doing well. That's a fair cop, but at least be up front and admit that's the real reason for closing the board. Don't preach to me about declining morals when it's evident that the writing is not promoting them, but is asking us to steer clear of them.
I bid CF adieu as well. I wish them luck in their bid to get a TOS series or movie off the ground. But I would caution them... sometimes having, is not so satisfying as wanting.
Further Reepicheep Saith Not!
Peace!
Reepicheep
[/RANT]
Reepicheep - That was an excellent comment.
During the gratuitous sex scenes, I found it helpful to turn the head away from the screen and uncomfortably look around the room while twiddling my thumbs. I discovered a number of things about my house the first season, but that is no more.
I think that your comment pretty much sums up how every so-called "GINO defendant" is feeling about this high and mighty letter. (I also enjoyed g-rob's "These chumps are chumps.") I do not feel that these men and women are the righteous warriors they claim to be. As you said, Reepicheep, they turn a blind eye to mudslinging TOS posters and immediately reprimand any "GINO" poster that says something a little "out of line" by their standards. These are some of the same people that posted that "This guy actually has a site..." followed by a link here. Righteous indignation nothing, they want things their way, and will stomp on anyone who disagrees.
" I understand that some people get squeamish from seeing what is really happening, what humanity has become."
Good post. I would like to make a minor but important correction to the above statement. The show is not about "what humanity has become," but about what "humanity has always been."
Certain events on the show may resonate with our present world, but they are not unique to "us," i.e. people living in present times. The people of Pegasus did not sprint forth fully-formed from the head of some uber-demon to shine the light on current events. It's more than that.
Rather, as the scene early in Season 2 showing the piles of human skulls that Baltar finds himself surrounded with on Kobol, humanity has ALWAYS had a dark side within, ready to be sprung like a trap given the right environmental and psychological pressure.
I think it's an important distinction to make and is the key to understanding where Ron Moore is coming from.
From the Fleets' post:
"Society in general has appeared to become more tolerant of rude and disrespectful behavior, to the point where it is celebrated when someone is deviant or rebellious. It’s rather disheartening and disturbing at the same time. But our society more and more rewards liars, killers and celebrity deviants, who in some cases are only in the news because of the crap they do, and not for any talent they may possess.”
They're buying into a myth that is simply not true. As a historian, it is very clear to me that most western society have _always_ celebrated rebellion. Look through British turn of the century papers for articles about serial killers, and it is clear that they are rewarded with more press for being more deviant. Hell, our very founding fathers were rebels.
It could even be argued that eastern societies place malovent folk characters on the same pedastal as the "good guys."
This is nothing new. It's human nature.
As far as television is concerned, perhaps CF would prefer that we return to the seventies television that birthed Galactica, when blacks were often relegated to iconic roles only, and other minorities were largely ignored.
"I would like to make a minor but important correction to the above statement. The show is not about 'what humanity has become,' but about what 'humanity has always been.'"
I am holding on to some ingrained religious ideas (there once was a time that humanity was pure, they fell away and now are bad by nature). So, essentially, we are saying the same thing. Apologies for the confusion.
A bunch of middle-aged-12-year-old nerds want to take their toys and go home? Fine. Why the hell does anyone even care?
Rape doesn't serve a story function? I imagine these guys have never watched Law & Order: SVU.
Also, anyone else catch the line:
"it glorifies a horrible aggression upon another human being."
Tricia Helfer and Grace Park are human beings, certainly. But the characters they play are GENOCIDAL ROBOTS BENT ON THE DESTRUCTION OF ALL MANKIND.
You'd think Colonial Fleet could at least know THAT much...
While my wife and I were both horrified by the gritty rape scene... this is just plain ignorant bantering to say they are "Glorifying it" or saying it is OK..
The scene made you clench your teeth at the horrible sight. Don't tell me this in any way is stating that such actions are OK... COME ON.. what are you thinking?
If indeed the authors of this letter watched the episode and felt that such a terrible scene was stating "rape is OK".... my only conclusion is that the authors themselves need to check their morals. Cause if you could not see that scene and understand that the horror implied, you must have a pretty warped mind.
That being said..... yeah it was over-the-line for my taste in violence.... but it was not nearly as bad as the ranting of this letter.
Greetings all,
It is pretty clear to me that the Gaurdians of Morality over at Colonial Fleet were looking for any loose semblance of an excuse to say a final goodbye to a show they hated from the beginning.
They seriously need to get over themselves. They also need to get over the fact that the original BSG - which I watched religiously and even bought all the merchandise for - was really not that great of a show and a repeat of such would have failed miserably. So say we all.
Peace,
--Will
PS, stop by my site and check out the latest Battlestar Friday entry.
First, let me say that in college I interned as a sexual assault crisis worker. I have a minor in women's studies and have worked with a homeless women population that has a high rate of sexual assault, and later worked with survivors as a birth assistant. I have a very intimate view of rape. And if I'm not offended by the portrayal of rape in BSG, then why should I and other survivors be patronized by a forum willing to show righteous indignation on our behalf? It was shocking, yes. However, rape IS a tool used in war (Bosnia-Croatia anyone, Somalia, Vietnam...the list is as endless as wars themselves). And frankly, it is refreshing seeing it portrayed in such a way as to leave your jaw hanging in mortification than to stick our heads in the sand and take the Victorian view of pretending it doesn't happen, and if it does then gentlemen don't talk about it.
BSG does not glorify rape anymore than it glorifies war. Both are unfortunate facts of human existence. One would assume that at this point in the BSG saga our point of reference is the BSG crew. We're seeing their world thru their eyes, not thru the eyes and experience of the Pegasus crew, for whom the rape seems perfectly acceptable. In response, we see two of our POV characters risk potentially life, limb, and their careers to stop the deed itself. That doesn't glorify it, in my opinion. Glorifying it would have been to say "it's ok, she's only a cylon" while everyone goes about their business. This is a very limited view and doesn't do justice to the show, and to the millions of survivors who have been forced to make this particular journey themselves.
I've taken a look at the CF site and I agree they were looking for something that would allow them to sever all input regarding TNBSG which brings to mind a couple points. I won't get into a big comparison of the shows but having watched the old BSG when I was young and having loved it, let's face it, it was campy and every thing you'd expect from that time period network TV. How many planets did they run into that were populated by humans?
The show only ran for one year so...
The rape scene was,clinch your teeth, stressful. Not to be redundant but the reason prisoners at Abu Graib were being led around by leashes and stacked into naked pyraminds is because the perpetrators saw them as less than human. Same here. The attackers saw Sharon as not human and I think that's the point that the writers had in mind. That even though here is a person that thinks feels and cries it is seen as a thing. I think the people over at CF are more into the gee wiz of space and ion drives than an actual plot when it concerns sci-fi
The Administration at Colonial Fleets are pathetic. They cling to a futile hope of resurrecting the original Battlestar Galactica series with it's original cast and storyline. Well, it ain't gonna happen. Let's face it, the original Galactica series was a product of the 1970's and is incompatible with the age we now live in. As a child, I was a huge fan of the series, but then again it was meant to appeal to young audiences (just like Star Wars did). I still like to watch the old episodes on DVD, but it's cheesy dialogue and character personalities are extremely outdated.
The current Battlestar Galactica series is modern, sophisticated, smart and edgy. The characters are portrayed very well and have all the faults that we "real" people can relate to. That's what makes the show stand out among others in it's genre.
The geeks at Colonial Fleets are a bunch of hypocrites and ridiculous for pretending to make a moral issue out of one particular scene in the new series. If it was really a moral issue, then why didn't they object to the original Starbuck? After all, he was a womanizing, somewhat chauvinistic, gambling, cigar smoker who was eager enough to jump in the sack with anything that lacked testicles. What a role model! Seriously, as charming as the original Starbuck character was back in the day, a character like him would probably be laughed at today. (He'd probably have an STD too) LOL!
To be honest? I was cheering as I read that letter. When I saw the episode it was really the final straw for me. I couldn't stand the show and had been trying to endure it to see if it'd get better... it didn't. I hear about things such as Rape so often in the news that it's getting to the point where I can't stand seeing it come up anymore. Yes, it happens, and it is indeed a horrible crime for which the punishment offenders get isn't high enough in my mind. So why the hell do I wanna be reminded of it in a show that is SUPPOSED to be entertaining and engaging?
Seriously, those defending the scenes may not all be fans of the new show but that is certainly the picture they're sending out. A line was crossed, and I know more than one viewer was lost as a result of it. It didn't help that the show just got less and less interesting as it went on, either.
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